Sometimes it is too much love that we do not know what to do with it. Use it for good purposes or bad purposes. What kind of reaction does our body and mind give to too much love? Or let's say when a feeling is too much what is its difference from the other extreme feelings such as jealousy, hate, passion and wanting to possess a person?
It is very hard to distinguish in a relationship, in a marriage, between men and women who plays (acts) more and who is more real. Who can understand who is lying less and who is more honest? The answers to these questions are never given.
But one thing can be said about the extreme feelings: They do not contain so much empathy and compassion. And there are times that a person needs compassion but finds passion instead and there are times that a person needs protection and finds pity instead. It is too often the case that we are so cruel, we are so totalitarian in our nation-state (as Vonnegut would say) to our only citizen, our partner. Since the other are excluded, or since the others who are not citizens of this nation-state it is too easy to focus too much on the subjects of the nation-state rather than looking at the universal values that we could have adopted to flourish instead of impoverish ourselves. (Thanks to Vonnegut for this great metaphor that I keep using each time I remember how selfish I am).
On the other hand, being too kind also kills the relationship. Maybe there are times that one should not be so kind, that one should not forgive. Maybe people should have their lines and maybe they should not try to learn from the other how to behave but figure it out by him or herself.
The movie was so beautiful, so expressive that I did not want to miss one little part of a conversation, a dialogue. Two people talking the same language, trying to understand each other, loving each other deeply. And the others envying them, being jealous of the harmony they are living in. So much so that they are humiliating them for their perfection. But they know that they are not perfect. She cannot say to her family that they do not want to visit her family one sunday (as it is against the routine, the mother convinces her). On the other hand, Johan is bored of the calls of his mother who is too worried about their relationship. People are intruding into their lives so much that they have to act in line with the social codes: They have to be civilized, they have to be good friends -cannot say anything when others humiliate the way their relationship is-, they have to comply with the cultural rules such as the visits of the family and the other routine things that they cannot give up... for some reason. They want to break free of it but cannot.
In the end, it is obvious they love each other. Even if Marienne does not like poetry and even if she does not want to have sex as much as Johan would like to have. It does not mean that she does not love him or desire him enough. She is always worried, she has seen so many families broken down that she is also questioning herself. But no she loves him, just that there is something absent... they do not know what it is. Even if they are fitting to their roles perfectly, there is something not working. Sex maybe? Why does it have to be important in relationships? Is it a small pillar that holds the window or is it like one of those pillars that holds the dome of Haghia Sophia? Who knows.
He is cruel, he decides to leave with another woman (who is not so perfect) maybe just sexy. He knows from the beginning that (he feels not very relaxed about it) Marienne is a big part of his life and he just feels restricted in this vicious circle of family visits, job, children and expectations from him... he wants to get out of the cycle and he wants to get rid of the ring that he does not see as a symbol of liberation. Marienne is destroyed. He does not give a shit. She is desperate especially when she learns that everybody knew except her.
But she does not give up, she becomes stronger, she loves again, she is beautiful she gains her self-confidence. It seems that Johan who seemed to be more confident was not as strong as Marienne. If Marienne had done the same thing, he would have been a drug addict, that is the impression I get from the movie.
Divorce is painful. But sexual attraction is inevitable. They cannot avoid each other. They cannot leave each other whatever happens. Seeing each other from time to time. There is such a strong tie between them that no other woman or man, no other relationship can dissolve this tie. If a storm comes, Marienne is in the arms of Johan. And they constantly say to each other as they meet "I am still in love with you.". They say that it is like the first day even if the memories are sometimes disturbing, so they change the places to create new memories. But they do yes, they do speak the same language.
Marienne is lucky to re-discover herself. Bergman is a genius. The notebook that Marienne is keeping about her dreams, thoughts, memories and insights, flows away. She reads to Johan her internal world, she opens her internal world to him so comfortably without any question. And maybe she would not have done it with another man. After a while Johan starts to sleep. And was not it Marienne who was not interested in his poetry? Roles change, people evolve, they change character... The only things that do not change between them is passion and compassion. Whenever they see each other after a while, they desire each other. They get excited as if they are teenagers and whenever there is something bad, they say to each other "I felt that you were lonely". I felt that you were afraid, and Johan hugs her. Or she hugs him. They take refuge in each other. Like the port that you go to when there is a storm. And you know you are safe there. It does not mean that they make each other happy, it does not mean that they are the best couple ever (whatever that means) but they learn how to share things that they were not able to share before: Dreams, thoughts, failures (being afraid of failing in life, work, relationships) and secrets. And better sex at the same time. At some point she says "we are open-minded now". Cause the previous structure (institution that Freud would also criticize) they had before never allowed them to have the freedom of being open-minded and liberated so that they could have escaped from all these external happenings that ruined who they were and how they led their daily lives???
She learns how to rebel, she learns how to get angry, she learns how to express herself better and she says "I had never felt good enough for you, your family, your mother never let me feel that way, that is why I was behaving like that..." (she says something like that during the signing of the divorce papers) She was too afraid to lose him and that is how she was losing him. He seemed too self-confident and self-centered that he did not let her grow her own way... or is it him and her, or is it the institution, the structure, or the effects of the others that vanish when they are out of marriage and in the end, they are able to say that they had been together for 20 years. They never give up each other. How can they give up? Maybe all the others were figurants in their lives, to make them closer to each other. It seems so. Bergman is cruel to the other figures they get married and have relationship with, we do not know them. But we do not want to know them either. Because they are for sure not full of love, however much they are injured, they do not know how to show their scars and share with each other in such a profound way as Johan and Marienne would do. Johan and Marienne know how to do it, they are not afraid of being weak in front of each other. They are not afraid of being human or acting like oneself. If it is called love, then let's call it love. And let's not underestimate it with these long and demagogic paragraphs that I had written.
It is very hard to distinguish in a relationship, in a marriage, between men and women who plays (acts) more and who is more real. Who can understand who is lying less and who is more honest? The answers to these questions are never given.
But one thing can be said about the extreme feelings: They do not contain so much empathy and compassion. And there are times that a person needs compassion but finds passion instead and there are times that a person needs protection and finds pity instead. It is too often the case that we are so cruel, we are so totalitarian in our nation-state (as Vonnegut would say) to our only citizen, our partner. Since the other are excluded, or since the others who are not citizens of this nation-state it is too easy to focus too much on the subjects of the nation-state rather than looking at the universal values that we could have adopted to flourish instead of impoverish ourselves. (Thanks to Vonnegut for this great metaphor that I keep using each time I remember how selfish I am).
On the other hand, being too kind also kills the relationship. Maybe there are times that one should not be so kind, that one should not forgive. Maybe people should have their lines and maybe they should not try to learn from the other how to behave but figure it out by him or herself.
The movie was so beautiful, so expressive that I did not want to miss one little part of a conversation, a dialogue. Two people talking the same language, trying to understand each other, loving each other deeply. And the others envying them, being jealous of the harmony they are living in. So much so that they are humiliating them for their perfection. But they know that they are not perfect. She cannot say to her family that they do not want to visit her family one sunday (as it is against the routine, the mother convinces her). On the other hand, Johan is bored of the calls of his mother who is too worried about their relationship. People are intruding into their lives so much that they have to act in line with the social codes: They have to be civilized, they have to be good friends -cannot say anything when others humiliate the way their relationship is-, they have to comply with the cultural rules such as the visits of the family and the other routine things that they cannot give up... for some reason. They want to break free of it but cannot.
In the end, it is obvious they love each other. Even if Marienne does not like poetry and even if she does not want to have sex as much as Johan would like to have. It does not mean that she does not love him or desire him enough. She is always worried, she has seen so many families broken down that she is also questioning herself. But no she loves him, just that there is something absent... they do not know what it is. Even if they are fitting to their roles perfectly, there is something not working. Sex maybe? Why does it have to be important in relationships? Is it a small pillar that holds the window or is it like one of those pillars that holds the dome of Haghia Sophia? Who knows.
He is cruel, he decides to leave with another woman (who is not so perfect) maybe just sexy. He knows from the beginning that (he feels not very relaxed about it) Marienne is a big part of his life and he just feels restricted in this vicious circle of family visits, job, children and expectations from him... he wants to get out of the cycle and he wants to get rid of the ring that he does not see as a symbol of liberation. Marienne is destroyed. He does not give a shit. She is desperate especially when she learns that everybody knew except her.
But she does not give up, she becomes stronger, she loves again, she is beautiful she gains her self-confidence. It seems that Johan who seemed to be more confident was not as strong as Marienne. If Marienne had done the same thing, he would have been a drug addict, that is the impression I get from the movie.
Divorce is painful. But sexual attraction is inevitable. They cannot avoid each other. They cannot leave each other whatever happens. Seeing each other from time to time. There is such a strong tie between them that no other woman or man, no other relationship can dissolve this tie. If a storm comes, Marienne is in the arms of Johan. And they constantly say to each other as they meet "I am still in love with you.". They say that it is like the first day even if the memories are sometimes disturbing, so they change the places to create new memories. But they do yes, they do speak the same language.
Marienne is lucky to re-discover herself. Bergman is a genius. The notebook that Marienne is keeping about her dreams, thoughts, memories and insights, flows away. She reads to Johan her internal world, she opens her internal world to him so comfortably without any question. And maybe she would not have done it with another man. After a while Johan starts to sleep. And was not it Marienne who was not interested in his poetry? Roles change, people evolve, they change character... The only things that do not change between them is passion and compassion. Whenever they see each other after a while, they desire each other. They get excited as if they are teenagers and whenever there is something bad, they say to each other "I felt that you were lonely". I felt that you were afraid, and Johan hugs her. Or she hugs him. They take refuge in each other. Like the port that you go to when there is a storm. And you know you are safe there. It does not mean that they make each other happy, it does not mean that they are the best couple ever (whatever that means) but they learn how to share things that they were not able to share before: Dreams, thoughts, failures (being afraid of failing in life, work, relationships) and secrets. And better sex at the same time. At some point she says "we are open-minded now". Cause the previous structure (institution that Freud would also criticize) they had before never allowed them to have the freedom of being open-minded and liberated so that they could have escaped from all these external happenings that ruined who they were and how they led their daily lives???
She learns how to rebel, she learns how to get angry, she learns how to express herself better and she says "I had never felt good enough for you, your family, your mother never let me feel that way, that is why I was behaving like that..." (she says something like that during the signing of the divorce papers) She was too afraid to lose him and that is how she was losing him. He seemed too self-confident and self-centered that he did not let her grow her own way... or is it him and her, or is it the institution, the structure, or the effects of the others that vanish when they are out of marriage and in the end, they are able to say that they had been together for 20 years. They never give up each other. How can they give up? Maybe all the others were figurants in their lives, to make them closer to each other. It seems so. Bergman is cruel to the other figures they get married and have relationship with, we do not know them. But we do not want to know them either. Because they are for sure not full of love, however much they are injured, they do not know how to show their scars and share with each other in such a profound way as Johan and Marienne would do. Johan and Marienne know how to do it, they are not afraid of being weak in front of each other. They are not afraid of being human or acting like oneself. If it is called love, then let's call it love. And let's not underestimate it with these long and demagogic paragraphs that I had written.
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